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Giving feedback to get feedback - here's how to do it (and why)!

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guru - founder
1432 posts

If you're reading this post, you're probably curious about how you can get more feedback for your writing efforts...

The simple answer is: be willing to give feedback to other writers in these forums!

A lot of language students are pretty quick to point out that, being learners themselves, they are not qualified or able to give feedback to other writers. That argument is reasonable up to a point. Particularly in terms of giving feedback about language use, it is true that learners are not always able to give definitive corrections or advice. However, that argument presupposes that correcting grammatical errors is the only kind of feedback that needs to take place in a writing forum.

Language use is only one part of the overall mechanism of essay writing. Essays are written to be read. They are composed to impart opinions and thoughts, to which readers can respond as critical thinkers and fellow human beings in an increasingly globalized world.

There are also other factors, like cultural differences that make people feel very reserved about giving or receiving feedback from non-experts in the language teaching field. That is also understandable when it comes to criticism, even if it is very well-meaning and constructive criticism. My simple solution there is: why not focus on the positives and the communicative aspects of sharing writing? I haven't encountered a culture in the world yet where giving compliments, encouragement and communicative responses was completely taboo!  

Following is a list of 10 things anyone can do (irrespective of their relative language level) when it comes to responding to other students' essays. You shouldn't feel like you need to engage in all of them, but there should be at least a couple of suggestions in the list that are feasible for you as one person giving feedback about writing to another person.

1) Tell the person how their essay made you feel, or what it made you think about.

2) Do you agree with the points or arguments put forward? Why or why not?

3) Could you personally relate to any of the arguments or examples given? If so, tell the writer about it!

4) Can you suggest any other examples that might support the points made in the other person's essay?

5) If you have written (or intend to write) about the same topic, how have you and the other writer gone about it differently? Which things about the other person's essay do you think have been done more effectively than the way you went about your essay?

6) Does the writer use any new words or terms you haven't encountered before? Look them up in a dictionary, and then tell the writer about the new language they've helped expose you to!

7) If there is something in the essay that you weren't able to understand, ask the writer about it. It could run along the lines of "I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say ... Do you think you could explain it for me in simple terms / a little more detail?"

8) Find at least one thing in the essay that you like (anything at all - from an example to a grammatical construction) and tell the writer about it!

9) Find something in the essay you would probably want to express in a different way. Frame it as a suggestion to the writer, and be sure to point out that it is only your unqualified opinion.

10) If you notice that the writer has developed or improved in some way compared to previous writing efforts, let him/her know that you think so!

 

Note that hardly any of these suggestions require you to have in-depth knowledge of essay composition or advanced English grammar or vocabulary usage. They don't require you to "edit" or give official scores. They work from the ideas of communication and collegial support and encouragement.

And here are the two reward "gems" to the people willing to take a leap and respond to others' writing:

- By reading a lot of writing, you develop a much deeper, critical awareness of composition yourself. You are injected with fresh ideas, new models, as well as warnings about what to avoid. By responding to others, you are actually helping yourself develop as a writer.

- If you set an example as someone willing to give encouragement and feedback, you drastically increase the chance of having the favor returned to you.

 

The ball's in your court...

Best wishes,

~ Jason 

 

__________________
"English is as easy or as difficult as you imagine it to be..." www.english-itutor.com
regular - member
70 posts

I agree and will do my best to encourage others... As myself, I am still struggling with my writtings.

guru - founder
1432 posts

I agree and will do my best to encourage others... As myself, I am still struggling with my writtings.

-marie

Great to hear, Marie!

~ Jason

__________________
"English is as easy or as difficult as you imagine it to be..." www.english-itutor.com
guru - founder
1432 posts

Oh... one other point! To give feedback to another writer in the forum, it's a good idea to "quote" the essay you are referring to.

To do that, choose "media editor" just above the post reply box (not standard editor - it will ruin the format of the quote), then click on "quote" for the essay you want to comment about. The essay in its original format will appear as a quote in the reply box, then you can add your friendly, helpful, encouraging comments below it!

Give it a try ~ someone will sure appreciate hearing from you!

Best wishes,

~ Jason

__________________
"English is as easy or as difficult as you imagine it to be..." www.english-itutor.com
guru - founder
1432 posts

Just a quick note... You don't need to change to "media editor" to quote. You can also do it directly in the standard (usual) editor. Just click on "quote" and the person's essay will appear in your posting text box.

Also, perhaps you're wondering how to return the favor if you see that someone gave you some feedback... That's easy! Click on the person's name, and it will take you to their personal blog where all their posts are gathered. Skim through until you find an essay from that person you'd like to respond to - click on that essay title, then click on quote. You're ready to return the favor and give this person your own feedback!

Keep up the fabulous work, everyone!

~ Jason

__________________
"English is as easy or as difficult as you imagine it to be..." www.english-itutor.com
guru - founder
1432 posts

Don't think giving feedback to other writers can work?

Look at this topic thread in the English Education Writing Lab:

http://global-english.lefora.com/2008/08/24/english-ed-writing-topic-1-reasons-for-learning-en/page1/ 

This is abundant evidence of what can be achieved among fellow learners and essay writers if people get into the spirit of giving and responding to helpful feedback. Just look at all those writers helping and encouraging each other! It makes my teacher's heart leap with joy, but possibly more importantly, these students are actually developing stronger and stronger skills just through the feedback process.

If you're still just uploading your essays and waiting for the world to help you (without you giving anything in return), well - I feel sorry for you. You're missing wonderful chances to develop your writing skills in a warm collaborative environment...

Best wishes,

~ Jason

__________________
"English is as easy or as difficult as you imagine it to be..." www.english-itutor.com
regular - member
106 posts

Thank you, Jason!
Your faithful advise makes me feel easy and challenging!
I'll do my best more!!
Have a good weekend with your lovely family!^^ Jason.

regular - member
125 posts

Well.....I think I understood what you trying to say..
But you are missing something....

that I'm not capable of those things yet..

May be I should try lol.

guru - founder
1432 posts

Well.....I think I understood what you trying to say..
But you are missing something.... that I'm not capable of those things yet.. May be I should try lol.

-kwanghoonchoe

Hi Kwanghoon,

Which things in particular do you feel you're not capable of yet? Looking through the list of 10 recommendations in the original post on giving feedback (and considering the contributions I've seen from you in the forum so far), I think you're very capable of most of them! In fact, you've already started doing some of them very well, and I know the people you've given feedback to appreciate it a lot.  

Best wishes,

~ Jason

__________________
"English is as easy or as difficult as you imagine it to be..." www.english-itutor.com
newbie - member
3 posts

please give me feed back about my essay.
Agree or disagree That distance learning and online computer classes should replace class room learning.

Where ever we turn our gaze we will see the chnges.changing is the nature of the world. Man through the ages undergoes to the changes. Some time these changes are worse but most of the time it wills helpfull.We can see the changes in our education system also. If we look in the past the only way we found to get education was to go to college or school. But in now days as the new technologies are interning in the world these technologies make the world computerized and electronic. This advancement affects our education system also. The invention of the computer and internet made the education system more advance and mordoinize, .Now in our country we can see two types of education first one is direct learning and other one is indirect learning. In direct learning student goes to school and college and interact with the teachers face to face. It is true that face to face interaction leaves a deep impact on teachers and student both. In class room learning student not only meet with the teachers but also come in touch with the verity of student which is also helpful in getting knowledge. Through this way student can share there views and adopt the others students view. On the other hand indirect learning that is distance learning and online classes are the mordent way of getting education. Some times what happen that some people are not able to go to college and attained the classes because of some circumstance chances in these situation distance learning and online classed help them to complete their education and fulfill their dream of better carrier. for example here I want to illustrate the story one of my friend he was very intelligent and has a good academic status but in the middle of the graduation his father died and he was next earning member of his family after his father in this situation it was not possible for him to go to college and complete their education in this situation with the help of the online classes he was to complete his graduation with his job. Some times people want to get high education but it is not possible for ever human being to go to another country and complete his wish but through the indirect education facility student can easily get education from other countries also. Some people feel hesitations to go to college because of their age at this situation they can complete his qualification through online classes. In my opinion both the way of education have their own places and importance. One can not replace another. The multimedia format of education should supplement the real class room learning can not replace it. It could be a effective solution to get education to everyone.

__________________
sonali
newbie - member
3 posts

Explain what you think are the main reasons people in your country have for learning English. Support your ideas with details and examples.

============================================================================

In Arabic countries specially my country (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), people are of their language. The pride increases when they read about their lost honor. When the Islamic civilization was destination for all the people asking for sciences and knowledge. Nowadays, people have woken up and have discovered the demand of English language. This is noted in the increasing of the institutes
which teach the English language in the last twenty years. But, the teaching methods are not good enough.

People in my country, show markable concern for English because it is the mother language of the sciences. Most recent fields after the secondary school teach in English. for example, medical, engineering, sciences and others fields are taught in English. Some Arabic countries did a great effort in translate all the knowledges to Arabic, like Syria, but they failed to follow the rapid development. Other countries have introduced the English language as a subject in the intermediate schools, like Saudi Arabia, but the results were not good. While other countries establish the English language from the primary schools beside the native language, what gives a perfect results, like Egypt. One of the most difficult challenges is the methods of teaching English. The absent of qualified teachers, ignoring the usage of the native teachers and lack to the modern laps are delaying the teaching process. The revolution in the communications help the self-learning. People can learn English from internet such as this wonderful website.

Nowadays, the English language has become a second language i the most of the Arabic countries, and the concern for improving the teaching methods encourage people to learn English.

regular - member
77 posts


please give me feed back about my essay.
Agree or disagree That distance learning and online computer classes should replace class room learning.

Where ever we turn our gaze we will see the chnges.changing is the nature of the world. Man through the ages undergoes to the changes. Some time these changes are worse but most of the time it wills helpfull.We can see the changes in our education system also. If we look in the past the only way we found to get education was to go to college or school. But in now days as (the) new technologies are interning in the world "THEY"(these technologies) make the world computerized and electronic. This advancement affects our education system "TOO" (also). The invention of the computer and internet made the education system more advance and "MODERNIZED"(mordoinize), .Now in our country we can see two types of education first one is direct learning and other one is indirect learning. In direct learning student goes to school and college and interact(s) with the teachers face to face. It is true that face to face interaction leaves a deep impact on teachers and student(s) both. In class room learning student not only meet(s) with the teachers but also come(s) in touch with the verity of student(s) which is also helpful in getting knowledge. Through this way student can share there views and adopt(s) the others students view. On the other hand, indirect learning that is distance learning and online classes are the mordent way of getting education. Some times what happen that some people are not able to go to college and attained the classes because of some circumstance chances in these situation distance learning and online classed help them to complete their education and fulfill their dream of better carrier. for example here I want to illustrate the story one of my friend he was very intelligent and has a good academic status but in the middle of the graduation his father died and he was next earning member of his family after his father in this situation it was not possible for him to go to college and complete their education in this situation with the help of the online classes he was to complete his graduation with his job. Some times people want to get high education but it is not possible for ever human being to go to another country and complete his wish but through the indirect education facility student can easily get education from other countries also. Some people feel hesitations to go to college because of their age at this situation they can complete his qualification through online classes. In my opinion both the way of education have their own places and importance. One can not replace another. The multimedia format of education should supplement the real class room learning can not replace it. It could be a effective solution to get education to everyone.

-sonali


Hi Sonali. I will be glad to make some comments about your writing. I am just learning English as you are. It will not be the kind of feedback that you probably expect (from Jason or another teacher ) but I will do my best. I am far away from discouraging you and please, consider that I also will make my own mistakes while I am writing this comments.
"Wherever", "nowadays" , "sometimes" are only one word.
When you write about "changes" I understand that you are talking about general changes. So I would omit the article "the". For example "Man .... undergoes CHANGES".
In the following sentence I see that you are talking in plural and you end with singular: "Some time these changes are worse but most of the time (they will be helpful )it wills helpfull".
Try not to repeat the same words in the same sentence. For example " these technologies.....I would change them for "they" or a synonym.
ALSO and Too are synonyms but also is used at the beginning of the sentence and TOO is used at the end of the sentence. "I like ice cream too." or "He also likes ice cream" You can also use "too" to modified an adjective : "It is too expensive"
Please, be careful with the subject and the verb. If you are talking about a singular person like "student" do not forget to add the "s" in the verb. When I write I always have to check it out because is common that I usually forget some "s". Just be aware of that when you are checking your writing.
Also, be careful when you are writing in present tense and then you switched to the past tense. Like "...some people are not( present tense) able to go to college and attained (past tense) the classes because..."
Try to used the "ABC check" before you submit your essay. It helps me a lot because I realize the words that I misspelled.
I liked your point of view and how you try to develop your essay. I am sure that you can improve a lot your writing. Just make sure not to use run sentences, sometimes I got lost.
I hope this help you. Keep writing and reading a lot.
Best regards,
Buenosaires

__________________
Buenosaires
newbie - member
3 posts

please give me feed back about my essay.

Explain what you think are the main reasons people in your country have for learning English. Support your ideas with details and examples.

In Arabic countries specially my country (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), people are of their language. The pride increases when they read about their lost honor. When the Islamic civilization was destination for all the people asking for sciences and knowledge. Nowadays, people have woken up and have discovered the demand of English language. This is noted in the increasing of the institutes
which teach the English language in the last twenty years. But, the teaching methods are not good enough.

People in my country, show markable concern for English because it is the mother language of the sciences. Most recent fields after the secondary school teach in English. for example, medical, engineering, sciences and others fields are taught in English. Some Arabic countries did a great effort in translate all the knowledges to Arabic, like Syria, but they failed to follow the rapid development. Other countries have introduced the English language as a subject in the intermediate schools, like Saudi Arabia, but the results were not good. While other countries establish the English language from the primary schools beside the native language, what gives a perfect results, like Egypt. One of the most difficult challenges is the methods of teaching English. The absent of qualified teachers, ignoring the usage of the native teachers and lack to the modern laps are delaying the teaching process. The revolution in the communications help the self-learning. People can learn English from internet such as this wonderful website.

Nowadays, the English language has become a second language i the most of the Arabic countries, and the concern for improving the teaching methods encourage people to learn English.

regular - member
77 posts

Hi e-student.
I will do my best if you accept my suggestions. Remember that I am learning like you.
I think that you have to read the tips that Jason wrote in this website. It will help you organize your writing and your thoughts.
First of all, a essay has to have 3 parts: introduction, body and conclusion.
The introductory paragraph has to have your thesis very clear. It also needs to state which will be your reasons that then you will develop in the body. For example, you can say that the reasons why people in your country learn English are.....( give at least 2 reasons). Then your body will have 2 paragraphs. One with a topic sentence about the reason #1 and the second paragraph with the topic sentence #2. Of course, then you have to give examples and details related with the topic that you are developing to support it.
I noticed that your essay lacks of this structure and sometimes I got confused not getting connection with the topic sentence ( you finished the paragraph talking about the teaching system). I think that you can make 2 paragraphs. The first one could talk about the importance of English in science fields and the other paragraph talking about another reason why your people is learning English.
After that you conclude the essay re-stating the 2 reasons a little different.

Be careful with the structure of the following sentence: "When the Islamic civilization was destination for all the people asking for sciences and knowledge." Something is missing... for example you can say " When the Islamic civilization was destination for all the people asking for sciences and knowledge, they were able to give answers.

I hope this help you.
Buenosaires.

__________________
Buenosaires
regular - member
72 posts

At the beginning, I didn't know how important it is but now I guess I do know about this a little bit more. Actually, the comments that other people made for me was greatly helpful. I could know where I did mistake and what was well done. I appreciate them very much. I guess I'd better keep replying and it would be helpful me but also others.

regular - member
101 posts

be willing to give feedback to other writers in these forums!

You mean that we have to give feedback if we we want to get it from others?

That's quite right. Ginving feedback is a kind of communication of sharing thoughts.

If one only comments on the others' essay, the communication can not be done.

There are this saying, "Ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man."

I will remember this.

guru - founder
1432 posts

The value of user-generated feedback on writing amongst students is massively clear to me.

I started the TOEFL writing lab about 6 months ago. So far, there are 83 topics and 806 posts (at time of writing this post) in that forum, which results in about 10 posts per topic. However, very very few of those posts are feedback postings from one writer to another, despite the large number of different users using that forum.

By way of comparison, the English Ed writing lab was opened 4 months ago as part of a credit-level writing course at Kyungpook National University in South Korea. "Participation and feedback" are part of the assessment criteria for that course. It has (at time of writing this) 117 topics and 1821 posts, producing a ratio of more than 15 posts per topic. Most importantly, a very large percentage of the posts are feedback posts from one writer to another writer.

Looking at it more deeply, however, there are more questions to be asked...

- The TOEFL writing lab users post their essays and ask for feedback. Then most of them disappear. No (or very little) interaction, no independent networking with other test takers. Why?

- The Korean students in the English Ed writing lab did a fantastic job of giving feedback to each other, and almost all of them have demonstrated exceptional improvement in both their formal writing and written communication. However, almost none of them ventured outside of this one writing lab to write essays or give feedback to users (of other nationalities) in other writing labs. Why?

- The writing course connected to the English Ed writing lab has recently finished and grades are about to be allocated. How many of the 40 or so Korean students in that writing course do you think will venture back to the writing forums and continue to practice on their own and give feedback to other users?

Based on my experience, I know the general answers to those questions.

A lot of people reading this may be walking away from the online forums, patting themselves on the back and saying things like "I did my best" and "I've tried very hard to improve my writing." Some may even leave it at that and put down any remaining deficiencies in their writing ability to the lack of help or advice given to them by a teacher (i.e., others will be lamenting the fact that Jason - the single English teacher in these forums - did not provide extensive 1-1 feedback to them).

I absolutely know what drives writing ability in students, but it is very much a case of "you can lead a horse to water, but..." Many students actually say "yes, there is the water, I know it is water, but you know - I'm going to create a couple of dozen reasons not to drink it right now, even though I'm terribly thirsty!"

However, I'm not giving up!

~ Jason

 

 

__________________
"English is as easy or as difficult as you imagine it to be..." www.english-itutor.com
regular - member
103 posts

At the first writing class, I didn't know why we should give feedbacks one another. I thought teacher's feedback is more important to improve student’s English ability because I thought student can get information related to grammar, vocabulary, and writing skills from only instructor. However, I changed my thought while I attend your writing class. As I read other students' essay, I was aware of importance of reading essays and giving feedbacks to others. I knew proper usage of vocabulary and grammar through reading other good essays. Also I felt need for improving my poor English ability. I think giving feedbacks to t others was good experiences to improve my English ability. ^.^ I will keep in mind this.

regular - member
103 posts

Mr. Renshaw, I have something to confess (?) hahaha.
At the beginning I had the exactly same thinking with others; I didn't understand why you made us give feedbacks to others' ones. In addition, it seemed to be very annoying and stressful.
However someday I found out that I, myself was obsorbed in following your instruct with enjoyment and delight. Frankly at first, I made some feedback just to fill the number of the posts. However while doing that, I became realizing that my writing skills and using of appropriate words were gradually improving. Also as time went by, I started to enjoy it purely and it became interesting. Moreover from it, I had some opportunities to retrospect my own knowledge and background information with understanding how to make some comments.
Therefore I really appreciate that your policy to make students read more writings of others and to give a chance to become a considerate and thoughtful critic. Thanks :D

regular - member
102 posts

As I replied to the feedbacks the other students have me, I felt the importance of feedback. When I become an English teacher in the future, I will use this way to encourage the students to do it. It will be very helpful. Thank you. :-)

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